Transcript for Podcast 3 (Part 2 of 2) 

 

Speaking Out: Human Trafficking Survivors 
and Individuals with Disabilities Discuss 
their Lived Experience and Interaction with 
Services 

MARGARET POTKAY: We would like to advise our listeners that 
this podcast discusses topics that include human trafficking, 
sexual assault, and domestic violence. Though we do not discuss 
graphic details, listener discretion is advised. 

Greetings and welcome to the Trafficking of Youth with 
Disabilities Education and Outreach Project podcast. Thank you 
for joining us. The purpose of this podcast is to raise awareness 
about the reality of trafficking of youth with disabilities. We talk 
about what trafficking is, risk factors for youth with disabilities, 
and how providers and the disability community can support 
survivors. 

This podcast was produced and organized by the International 
Organization for Adolescents and the National Human Trafficking 
and Disabilities Working Group. I am your host, Margaret Potkay, 
project consultant with IOFA. 


Welcome to part two of our podcast, titled, "Speaking Out: 
Human Trafficking Survivors and Individuals with Disabilities 
Discuss their Lived Experience and Interaction with Services." 
Today, we are speaking with TJ, with the goal of raising 
awareness for anti-trafficking providers and youth-serving 
organizations on becoming disability aware and inclusive in their 
services. We are grateful to the individuals who have agreed to 
share their work and lived experiences as people with disabilities. 
Their valuable information comes from years of personal and 
professional experiences working on issues facing the disability 
community. 

We know that youth with disabilities are trafficked in every part of 
the United States. As we identify survivors of trafficking with 
disabilities, it is important that the services they receive are 
trauma-informed and accessible. 

The purpose of the interview is to bring awareness to social 
services providers who may come into contact with youth 
trafficking survivors with disabilities and to learn more about how 
programs and services for trafficked youth can improve their 
work to be inclusive to youth survivors with disabilities. This 
information could benefit all youth service providers so that their 
services are inclusive and welcoming to all youth. 

So today, on our episode, thank you for joining us so much. We 
have TJ, a self-advocate on the line. Love to get to know you 


better. TJ, can you introduce yourself to our audience, whatever 
you are comfortable with? 

TJ GORDON: Sure thing, Margaret. I'll definitely do that. Hello 
everyone, my name is TJ Gordon from Chicago, Illinois. My 
pronouns are he/his pronouns and I am a researcher at 
University of Illinois at Chicago. And I am also a autistic self-
advocate and writer, and one of the co-founders of Chicagoland 
Disabled People of Color Coalition, or Chicagoland DPOCC. So I 
am a man of many acts. 

MARGARET POTKAY: Yeah, very active in the community. That's 
great. I wanted to ask, is there any organizations or communities 
that you identify with further? 

TJ GORDON: Yes. I identify with the autistic community. I identify 
with people of color in general, especially the African American 
community and the whole African diaspora. Because I have 
auditory processing disorder, I also could identify with people 
who are hard of hearing or deaf. And I also ally with the LGBT+ 
community, too. 

MARGARET POTKAY: And for anyone that might be listening, 
would you mind describing or defining autism for anyone that 
might not know about autism? 


TJ GORDON: Yes. Autism is a developmental disability that affects 
not only how you process certain information or senses, but also 
affects how you interact with people as well. It can range from 
some people who use a communication device to express 
themselves, to people who use their voices but may not be good 
at certain situations, like interacting with peers. So it is like a 
spectrum of disabilities. 

MARGARET POTKAY: OK. Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing 
and letting our audience know a little bit about your background 
and who you are. 

And I wanted to ask, from your perspective, if you could share, 
what are some barriers that providers and organizations may 
unintentionally create to best respond to and meet the needs of 
people with disabilities? 

TJ GORDON: Sure. I think one of the barriers that people with 
disabilities face when trying to receive services from either 
providers or organizations such as independent living centers is 
the location, sheer location. Because in some places, you have to 
go to more affluent areas to get the services because there may 
not be any quality services available in underserved communities. 

MARGARET POTKAY: OK. So literally a physical place to go that 
there is not accessibility in less developed areas. 


TJ GORDON: Yes. 

MARGARET POTKAY: And then, in terms of any access that you 
have had, if you've been to an organization or a provider. When 
you have reached that location, is there anything, once you are 
there, even in these areas, after going through the trouble of 
getting to the location. Is there anything that you would say that 
you've experienced, or from your perspective, that providers may 
have done differently to meet the needs of people with 
disabilities? 

TJ GORDON: Sure. I have a wide range of experiences. In some 
places, they literally ask me how my disability affects my daily 
life. And once they get that information, they will either put me in 
touch with somebody that could help me more if they are not 
able to help, or they would provide with the resources that I 
need. 

But on the other hand, in other places, I was able to get the 
resource that I need because people did not perceive me to be 
disabled because I appear able-bodied, even though I have many 
barriers because of my disability. 

MARGARET POTKAY: So there may be an assumption that 
providers or organizations may have that creates a barrier in your 
experience. 


TJ GORDON: Yes. 

MARGARET POTKAY: And so, from your work and from your 
experiences, what suggestions or recommendations would you 
give to youth service providers and organizations on how to 
become more disability aware and inclusive, to think about these 
things and not to have these kinds of prejudices. 

TJ GORDON: That's a very good question. I wish I could give an 
answer from the textbooks, if I can say. But my personal advice 
to you providers, is, listen to the youth with the disability. They 
will tell you all that you need to know. 

And also listen to the parents as well, for support, or in case, the 
parents-- or the family members, I should say-- of the youth with 
the disability may need others to advocate for that person. I think 
it's all about listening to people first instead of making 
assumptions. 

MARGARET POTKAY: Yeah, that's wonderful. That's a great piece 
of advice. Thank you. And when we talk about disability aware or 
inclusive, what does that look like? What is a disability-inclusive 
organization? 

TJ GORDON: Usually, disability aware organizations-- you have 
places that are accessible to people with disabilities. It is not just 
ramps and elevators, but also providing services as language 


interpretation, especially sign language. Or if you need a break, 
he go to a visiting room. It's more to do with making the 
experience comfortable for the person, even beyond the ADA. 
And also recognizing that all differences, I mean all perspectives 
of the disability community is different. So a good organization 
would listen to many perspectives. 

MARGARET POTKAY: Yeah, and I think you bring up a really 
important, very clear aspect of this conversation about 
accessibility, is the fact that accessibility goes beyond just a 
physical disability. Like you said, it can be with support for 
language barriers, speech accessibility, to understand the wider 
range of what accessibility is, really. 

And tell me, what are some tips for providers and organizations 
as they start their journey to become more disability aware and 
inclusive? So if an organization or a medical professional or 
someone who says, we really want to start providing and 
becoming a disability aware organization, how would you give 
them some tips? 

TJ GORDON: A particular tip I would give those organizations or 
especially medical providers, I will give them literature on self-
advocates explaining what inclusion will look like for those 
organizations. And I could also give just general information on 
what inclusion of disabled people or people with disabilities will 


look like. I think we can start there. And organization can also do 
case studies or look at organizations that are already inclusive. 

MARGARET POTKAY: OK, great. So those are all wonderful 
suggestions. Looking at case studies and then seeing other 
organizations who are already inclusive, and trying to mirror or 
learn what is working for them and perhaps trying to adapt that 
into the organization that is trying to learn. 

And you did mention literature, so I wanted to take the moment 
to just mention a few books that have come out that are super, 
super helpful resources. The first, if anyone is interested, the 
first, by Lydia Brown and the Autism Women's Network. It is 
called All the Weight of Our Dreams: on Living Racialized Autism. 
And this is a collection, an anthology of essays from the autism 
and African American communities. 

And then we also have Disability Visibility: First-Person Stories 
from the Twenty-First Century. And this is by Alice Wong. This 
just came out in June 2020. And that's a collection of personal 
stories. 

And the last is actually a blog. It's called the Harriet Tubman 
Collective. It is on Tumblr, and it features posts on disability and 
racial justice from an African American experience. So I did just 
want to mention those books, those pieces of literature that can 
be very helpful if anyone wants to learn a little bit more. 


And then there are also resources to help learn about disability 
services that can help with disability inclusion and accessibility, 
and those are Centers for Independent Living. You can go online, 
Google it, and you can find the national directory to find a local 
Center of Independent Living. 

And also the ADA National Network. So you can also find online, a 
directory for where there is a regional ADA center serving your 
area. So it's a great place to learn about being ADA compliant 
and accessible. 

So I just wanted to add those couple resources and I'll turn back 
and ask you, in addition, if you have any suggestions for where 
one might go for even more information, if there's anything you 
wanted to add. 

TJ GORDON: If they follow social media and type in, I don't know, 
disabled advocates or disabled advocates or something to that 
effect, you could follow self-advocates' and activists' accounts to 
get more information on what's going on in the disability 
community, and their insights on how to be inclusive in your 
organization. You could also go to their blogs and they're even 
writing books and articles from newspapers that you could refer 
to, also. 

MARGARET POTKAY: That's a great suggestion. I think today, 
with social media, and we have so much access into people 


sharing about their experience, that is a great place to go for a 
very firsthand understanding. And that's a great way to listen, is 
to get out there and access what people are sharing. So thank 
you for that. 

TJ GORDON: No problem. 

MARGARET POTKAY: And tell me, TJ. I mean, we covered a little 
bit about some barriers, some insight into how an organization 
can become more disability-inclusive. Is there anything that you 
would like to share that we haven't discussed yet. This can be for 
youth, for the disability community, for anti-trafficking providers, 
or an experience that you'd like to share with the listeners today. 

TJ GORDON: I would definitely do so. And I'm glad you made an 
anti-trafficking, especially the sexual experience of people with 
disabilities, mainly adults with disabilities, of course. I think we 
got to let people know, and organizations know that one, disabled 
people have access to sexuality and access to that information. 

And we need to give information on what human trafficking looks 
like and what they can do if they find themselves in that 
situation, and how people can help. And again, just like any other 
service, listen to the stories of people with disabilities. It It helps 
a lot. And that's all I have. 


MARGARET POTKAY: Thank you again for sharing your experience 
and your insight with our listeners today. We hope that we can 
bridge that gap and kind of start speaking more about these 
barriers, about the things that we, as a society, may neglect to 
discuss or bring to the table. And this is our hope-- that with this 
podcast and with the help of contributors and advocates like 
yourself-- that we can spark a conversation and continue moving 
forward in a place that we will have a more inclusive and 
educated society. So thank you, thank you for joining us. We 
really appreciate your time on the podcast today. 

TJ GORDON: No problem. Thank you for bringing me on board 

MARGARET POTKAY: We are very grateful. So thank you and 
have a beautiful day 

TJ GORDON: You too. 

MARGARET POTKAY: Thank you for listening to our podcast. If 
you have questions and would like to contact us, please email us 
at info@iofa.org. You can learn more about IOFA and contact us 
at our website, www.iofa.org. You can learn more about the 
National Human Trafficking and Disabilities Working Group, 
NHTDWG, at http://iofa.org/national trafficking disabilities 
working group, and find additional resources on the intersection 
of human trafficking and youth with disabilities. 


If you are concerned that someone you care about is at risk of, or 
being trafficked, you can get help at the National Human 
Trafficking Hotline at 888-373-7888, 24 hours a day, seven days 
a week. 

Text 233-733 or live chat with an advocate at their website, 
https://humantra ffickinghotline.org. 

This project was produced by the International Organization for 
Adolescents under award number 2016XBGXK015, awarded by 
the Office for Victims of Crime, Office of Justice Programs, US 
Department of Justice. The opinions, findings, and conclusions or 
recommendations expressed in this project are those of the 
contributors and do not necessarily represent the official positions 
or policies of the US Department of Justice. 

Thank you to our partners, National Human Trafficking and 
Disabilities Working Group and the National Resource Center for 
Reaching Victims.