Transcript: 

The Way Forward: Emerging Strategies for 
Crime Victims of Color, Shaping the Future of 
Organizing: Applying the Lessons Learned from 
Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women 
Organizers 

JACKIE CHERNICOFF: Good afternoon, everyone-- or, good 
morning, depending on where you're joining us from today. 
Thank you for joining our virtual session-- Shaping the Future of 
Organizing Applying the Lessons Learned from Missing and 
Murdered Indigenous Women Organizers." This is the third in a 
four-part series, "The Way Forward, Emerging Strategies for 
Crime Victims of Color." 

For those of you who've joined us before, welcome back. And for 
those of you who are joining us for the first time, we're really 
glad that you're with us today. My name is Jackie Chernicoff, with 
the Center on Victimization and Safety at the Vera Institute of 
Justice and the National Resource Center for Reaching Victims. 

OK. With that I want to turn things over to Zoe Flowers, who's 
going to introduce herself and the wonderful panelists we have 
for today's session. 


ZOE FLOWERS: Hi, everyone, this is Zoe Flowers. So glad that all 
of you all are in the room. So glad to see you all-- just the 
various states represented. And I'm really, really excited to go 
ahead and get this started. 

I am Zoe Flowers. I am a senior consultant with the Women of 
Color Network. And this conversation is part of the longstanding 
work that WOCN has been doing with the Vera institute of Justice 
and the National Resource Center. So welcome to you all. Hi, 
Don. I'm going to stay out of the chat and stay focused on the 
conversation. 

So I want to go ahead and introduce my fantastic panelists. You 
all are in for a great conversation today. So I would love for 
Junetta Jamerson to come on the screen, Annika Leonard, and 
Rachelle. And Rachelle, is it Venne, or Veene? 

RACHELLE VENNE: It's Venne. 

ZOE FLOWERS: Perfect. Thank you. So again, you all are in for 
lots of great information. You will be able to access this webinar 
on the National Resource Center website. The Vera team will be 
putting that information in the chat throughout the call, so you 
will be able to do that. It is being recorded. And you might want 
to take notes, too, because it's going to be good. 


So let me go ahead and introduce my colleagues. So Junetta 
Jamerson is an emancipationist, anti-racism expert, community 
builder, and award-winning Black youth educator in Edmonton, 
Alberta. She has worked extensively on issues ranging from 
discrimination and inequity to women's uplift and empowerment. 

She is one of the founding members of Black Women United YEG, 
an advocacy collective committed to the advancement and 
protection of Black women and girls. And Junetta, please put 
what YEG means in the chat, because I can't remember. Thank 
you. 

While her projects have taken her to numerous international 
countries, it is her work with women and youth in Edmonton's 
African Canadian community which she is most proud of. 

And on to Annika. Wherever Annika Leonard feels called to create 
spaces, she goes where she feels called to create spaces-- where 
deep healing can occur, particularly in the lives of Black women, 
femmes, girls, and youth. 

On a national level, Annika has participated in the ACE-DV 
Leadership Forum of the National Resource Center on Domestic 
Violence-- and has been consulted with the National Resource 
Center on Sexual Violence under several projects, including the 
2018 SART Protocol and the Sexual Assault Demonstration 
Initiative Project. 


Annika has served as the chair of the Milwaukee Commission on 
Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault, where her organization 
Priceless Incite LLC operates as a sexual-assault service provider 
in the city of Milwaukee. Annika has a Bachelor of Science in 
human services and a Master of Business Administration from 
Cardinal Stritch University. 

Her continued studies and 15-plus years of experience honoring 
and holding space for people most impacted by violence allow her 
to present offerings, in the forms of workshops, keynotes, and 
guiding us to be in alignment with our truth-- through her 
organization Priceless Incite. 

Annika has developed a unique, culturally-specific curriculum for 
Black youth, that cultivate their self-awareness, leadership, and 
wellness to bring about deep, radical, and cultural solutions to 
ending violence. 

And now on to Rachelle. Rachelle Veene is the Chief Executive 
Officer of the Institute for the Advancement of Aboriginal Women-
- IAAW. She has over 20 years of experience with building 
collaborative partnerships in non-profit, corporate, and 
government sectors. Rachelle has held a variety of positions to 
prepare her for her current role, including contract analyst for 
children's services, project officer for the Urban Aboriginal 
Strategy in Edmonton, and small-business owner. 


In 2012, Rachelle received the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond 
Jubilee Medal, for her community service with REACH Edmonton. 
In March 2017, Rachelle was selected as one of six Canadian NGO 
delegates to attend the United Nations Commission on the Status 
of Women in New York. 

Her accomplishments include being appointed to the government 
of Alberta's Metis Women's Economic Security Council, Alberta 
Order of Excellence Council, Alberta Joint Working Group on 
Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls, Alberta 
Recycling Management Board-- and recently, the board of the 
Edmonton Community Legal Center. 

Using innovation and several community partners, Rachelle is 
guided by her own experience as a 22-year-old Metis single mom 
going back to school after fleeing violence. Her three children are 
now 36, 34, and 32 and a great source of pride. Rachelle enjoys 
spending time with her five grandchildren and traveling with her 
partner, Glenn, when she isn't working or volunteering. 

So I am so excited to bring this conversation to you all. And I am 
going to stop talking and turn it over to Rachelle and Junetta and 
Annika. And I just want to remind the panelists that, as you're 
talking, please just introduce yourself by saying, this is Junetta, 
this is Annika, this is Rachelle. 


So I'm going to pose the first question. Why are we even having 
this conversation? And what are the parallels between our 
communities? Because I know that folks have that question. So 
why are we having it? 

JUNETTA JAMERSON: This is Junetta. Annika, were you going to 
jump in? So I'm also an oral historian, focusing on my people 
here, who were the first Black people to settle in Western 
Canada-- starting 130 years ago. We are originally from the 
southern United States. 

But at this point in time, I am fifth generation Canadian-- 
although ethnically African American. And the histories between 
Africans in America and also Africans in North America and 
Indigenous folk are running on parallel tracks. Both groups-- and 
I use the word group broadly-- are survivors of genocide. There is 
the genocide on North American soil, and then there is also the 
Maafa, which is Kiswahili for the great disaster-- referring to the 
genocide that had its catalyst on African shores. 

The death toll number of these pogroms ranges anywhere from-- 
I've seen figures up to 100 million for the Indigenous genocide. 
I've seen estimates at 40 million for the Maafa, or the genocide 
surrounding the trans-Atlantic slave trade. 

And when you look at what the fallout of genocide is, of who must 
remain down in order for others to remain up, that's when you 


see parallels pertaining to the systems that maintain that-- that 
maintain that power differential-- and even more parallels begin 
to emerge. These are enduring disparities. These are enduring 
attitudes and highly-enforced practices and beliefs. 

How that pertains to specifically black women, Indigenous 
women-- well, we find even more parallels there-- as who 
receives, in many cases-- and I can make a case for this-- the 
brunt of those disparities within the greater society. And I can 
also make a case within our cultural communities. 

There are in fact lessons to be learned-- and this is what we want 
to share-- from how those disparities have been challenged. And 
that's why I'm really happy to have Annika and Rachelle here. So 
that's what I would like to-- 

ZOE FLOWERS: Thank you, Junetta. This is Zoe. And so we are 
going to take a quick pause, so that the interpreters can switch. 

OK, so it says that they're all set. I do not see the interpreter on 
my end, just to let you all know. Thank you so much. OK, so let's 
have-- Annika, I believe you were going to say something, and 
then Rachelle. Why are we having this conversation? Why now? 

ANNIKA LEONARD: Hi, everyone, this is Annika. And I wanted to 
first ground myself. I am the daughter of Eric and Anne Leonard. 
I am the granddaughter of Norvel Curry and Gracie B. Leonard, 


who we just buried her on Saturday. And I am the mother of two 
amazing young adults-- Anita and Eric Leonard. And I am the 
keeper of countless stories that have been shared with me by 
members of the community affairs. 

And so Zoe mentioned in the introduction about my organization 
Priceless Incite. And I started Priceless Incite because of the 
parallels that we see between Black Americans and missing and 
murdered Indigenous women. And so there are so many things 
that we have in common that Junetta has already mentioned. 

And so I wanted to piggyback on some of that, while also saying 
that a lot of what I'm sharing is not my own original information. 
Like, I have studied. I've read. I've followed people who have 
been sharing their views and research on the different things that 
I'll be bringing-up today. 

So I wanted to make sure that I said that, because none of this is 
my own work. Well, not a lot of it isn't, I should say. So I saw a 
person named Dr. Joy DeGruy maybe almost 10-years ago. And 
she was at this YWCA function. It was a training series. 

And I was blown away. I was absolutely blown away by the way 
she organized the group of information based in North America, 
and discussed the fact that African Americans here had what's 
called post-traumatic slave syndrome. And she showed a series of 
flags during her presentation where she named some of the ways 


that Africans had been enslaved in America, , and connected it to 
some of the things that we see here today. 

And so I wanted to talk about how both First Nations, Indigenous 
people, and African Americans, or enslaved Africans, have 
definitely been stereotyped to justify the use of violence against 
our communities. 

ZOE FLOWERS: Thank you, Annika. Rachelle, I'm so-- 

ANNIKA LEONARD: Oh, I wasn't done. Just kind of soft pause. 
[LAUGHS] Oh, we got some work here. So I wanted to talk about 
things like the Casual Killing Act, that Dr. Joy DeGruy introduced 
to me. And it says that you can actually kill a slave, if you were 
killing them in an effort to correct their behavior. And that 
behavior was rebelling-- doing something that was outside of the 
plantation laws, or rules. You could actually kill a slave, or 
enslaved person, and not be punished for it. 

So there's a direct connection between the Casual Killing Act and 
to Say Her Name to Black Lives Matter and to the number of 
police disparities and murders that we have here today. So I'll 
leave it at that, and then I'll pick up the rest a little later. 

ZOE FLOWERS: Thank you, Annika. Rachelle, I'm so excited to 
hear from you, because this is our first pairing. So welcome. 


RACHELLE VENNE: Thank you very much. And I first want to say 
that I am coming to you from Treaty Six territory, and home of 
the Metis, of which I am a part of. 

And just to kind explain a little bit about the Metis people, we are 
of mixed ancestry. And we associate with ourselves as Metis, 
being as though we come from the Red River area. So Rupert's 
Land in Manitoba. 

And so I have both French in my background, as well as Cree. 
And so that is just a little bit of a unique thing for Western 
Canada, mainly. But in the province of Alberta, , for example we 
do have Metis settlements who have land. And that is unique to 
Canada. 

So just wanted to start off first by saying I am not First Nations. I 
do have lineage to the First Nations. But I come to you as a Metis 
woman. The idea of why we're having this conversation, I can say 
simply, because I think there is a need to become allies of one 
each other. 

And our experience is different but similar, in that we have just 
recently, with the National Inquiry results, I guess had it written. 
And I mean, there was a big to-do about being recognized as 
genocide. And so previous to that, it was cultural genocide. And 
regardless, in our perspective-- and sorry for talking so quickly-- 
it's the idea of there are blockages put in front of you. 


And so if by becoming allies with other community groups, we 
can reduce those barriers together, I think we can move forward 
in a positive way, collectively. I just wanted to make one other 
statement. I'm a daughter of a national advocate. 

So my life really was following Mom around to all the marches, 
the events. And so I can associate with Annika, just with the fact 
that what I'm bringing to you is the stories that I've heard and 
that I've been a part of. And they're not mine. So I'd like to pay 
homage to the people who came before me. And as Oprah said, 
put on that crown, because it's been laid-out there for you to 
bring forward-- and bring forward in a good way. 

So I'd just like to say that my mother was is an advocate that 
received the Order of Canada, the Alberta Order of Excellence, 
and has been nationally recognized. Our work started way back 
40-years ago, with her work. But there's also been very 
significant Indigenous women who made that trek to Ottawa, to 
try and change policies and things like that-- that in my lifetime I 
was fortunate enough to see and be witness to. So I always 
remember where I came from. Thank you. 

ZOE FLOWERS: Thank you so much. This is Zoe. So Junetta, this 
conversation also was born out of conversations that you and I 
had. So for those of you all that do not know, last summer-- 
gosh, I think coming up on this same time of year-- I traveled to 


Edmonton to meet with the First Nations elders there, to hear 
about the missing and murdered Indigenous women in Edmonton. 

And Junetta was kind enough to take me on a reserve. And we 
had just such a great conversation. And we felt that this cross-
country, cross-cultural conversation between Indigenous women 
and African American women here was critical. And so I would 
love for Junetta and Rachelle to talk about some of the first steps 
that communities can take to address violence against Black and 
Brown girls-- the work that the missing and murdered Indigenous 
women in Canada did, that we can look to as a framework. So if 
you all would talk about that, it would be fantastic. 

JUNETTA JAMERSON: Sure. So let's tag-team this, Rachelle. The 
framework that we came up with begins with the first step around 
statistics-- stats. And originally, there was no reliable estimate. 
Indigenous families, Metis families knew this was going on. 
Communities knew. But there was real resistance to quantifying 
that. Rachelle, can you tell us a bit about that resistance? 

RACHELLE VENNE: Yeah, it was interesting. In my search of kind 
of the 20 years of history that I've personally been involved, I 
found a document that was presented to the United Nations, in 
2013. And it talked about 40 years of governments to the human-
rights commissions knowing about the murders of Indigenous 
women and doing nothing. 


And we've had movies. The Conspiracy of Silence is a good 
movie. It talks about the Helen Betty Osborne case, where four 
men who murdered her were known in the community. 
Everybody knew who did it, but nobody wanted to pursue those 
charges. So that took many years of fighting, to get those four 
men charged in her murder. 

But those are some of the instances of they did know. But it's 
indifference. We call it indifference. But the fact that they knew 
and did nothing. And so those were very widespread. I know I've 
been in rooms where the government would say-- they like to 
keep you hungry. And just very derogatory remarks about-- they 
knew we were fighting. They knew we weren't being heard. And 
we just couldn't get people to see what was going on, and our 
women were being murdered. 

So I know from our perspective, in that first presentation to the 
United Nations, we noted that in 1999 there were 114 women in 
the Edmonton area where there were no charges. We knew that 
they were missing or murdered, and no charges. So in that 
respect, we had already made that initial kind of scan of the 
immediate community, and yet nothing happened till very 
recently. So it's been a long, long history of just trying to get 
those statistics out. 

And I really have to pay respects to Amnesty International, 
because them working with the Native Women's Association in 


2004, to kind of take our case, if you would put it that way. But 
they really shed an international light on what was happening in 
Canada. And we were very grateful for that happening, because 
we couldn't do it on our own. Nobody would listen. 

JUNETTA JAMERSON: I think in terms of the blueprint, it's 
important to find out that that first statistical gathering was the 
initiative of Indigenous women. And in your opinion, Rachelle, 
why are stats so important? Why did those numbers matter? Why 
was that statistical gathering a crucial first step? 

RACHELLE VENNE: Well, I think the comparison to the percentage 
of Indigenous people that are in Canada versus how many are 
being murdered. I think those stats really tell a picture of their 
own. But also in my speeches, what I share is that you can look 
at every socio-economic indicator, and Indigenous women are 
always at the bottom. In regards to just being able to have the 
resources and the support that they need to move forward, it's 
not there. And so it's still a continuous fight for us. 

So I love to use numbers. Our current provincial government we 
have here, they have an austerity kind of look at things. So I love 
to do comparisons of if you support Indigenous women, how 
much money would you save? Oh my gosh. The idea of we can 
show that if you do things right, it will cost you less. And so I like 
to cut of use stats for that benefit. 


JUNETTA JAMERSON: Thank you, Rachelle. And the next sort of 
step in the framework that we looked at was narrative, and how 
Indigenous women, they seize hold of the narrative. So stats are 
one thing, but then what people think of the stats and how they 
make sense of the stats is quite another. 

And we had heard from one of the panelists about the 
stereotypes-- these deeply-ingrained stereotypes. And seizing 
hold of the narrative refuted these very degrading colonial 
stereotypes, and instead begin to infuse the conversation around 
the traditional status of Indigenous women as life givers, as 
leaders. Can you talk about that narrative a little bit more, 
Rachelle, and how that affected people's attitudes? 

RACHELLE VENNE: I think most significant for me in that area is 
around our work with the Esquao Awards. So esquao is a stylized 
word for the Cree word for woman. And Institute for the 
Advancement of Aboriginal Women started the awards 25-years 
ago. And the whole intention was to change stereotypes of 
Indigenous women in the community. 

And so over 25 years, we've made our own rules. We've kind of 
recognized women that are unsung heroes in over almost 100 
communities across Alberta, to try and change that stereotype. 
So what we were seeing is that regular recognition events, that 
you would never see an Indigenous woman there. She wouldn't 
make the cut, so to speak. 


So we created our own, and we have funded it ourselves, through 
corporate sponsorships, for a long time. First probably 12 years, 
we had no government funding. And so we just said, we're going 
to do this ourselves. If our women won't be recognized, we will 
recognize their work. And so that has served us very well. 

And it came at a time where we were really struggling, which is 
usually summer-- because we're a project-based organization and 
we never have money in the summer. So we would use the funds 
that we get for tickets purchased for an event to keep our doors 
open over the summer. 

So that's how it started. But it's 25 years. And I think we've been 
really successful in not only reducing divisions with the public and 
the Indigenous women, but also between women. So coming 
together to support Metis community, Inuit community, 
Indigenous communities in a whole, right? First Nations. 

So the idea of you know supporting our own women is what we 
did. And we just blasted it everywhere in the media and 
throughout the communities, to just say, we will recognize our 
own women. 

ZOE FLOWERS: Thank you Rachelle. This is Zoe. So we are going 
to take a pause for the interpreters. And Junetta, I'm not sure, 
were you going to say something else? If not, I'm going to turn it 
over to Annika. 


JUNETTA JAMERSON: Yes, we did have a few other steps to 
share. But if Annika would like to jump in because it's related, we 
could do that. 

ZOE FLOWERS: Perfect. Annika, please feel free to join in. 

ANNIKA LEONARD: Hi, this is Annika. So I wanted to add a 
number of things. And the question was around, how can we 
address violence? 

ZOE FLOWERS: The question is, what are some of the first steps 
that communities can take to address violence against Black and 
Brown girls. So just some first steps, in either your opinion or 
your resources, that we can take. 

ANNIKA LEONARD: Yeah, I wanted to make sure. Because I have 
so many notes that I've been jotting down, just because things 
are just coming to me. And I'm very thankful to relay the 
information. I've been one of the things that we can do is hold 
community-based organizations, domestic and sexual-assault 
service providers, accountable for the services that they do and 
do not provide-- in particular when it comes to Black women and 
girls-- and even more so when it comes to transgender, 
nonconforming, and LGBTQ folks. 

So one of the things that I think would be really helpful is to 
create funding streams specifically for our community, and to 


have that funding stream be a way to guide the work that's being 
done-- that is led by members of the community who are most 
impacted by violence. 

Yeah. And I wanted to just kind of piggyback off of Rachelle, 
when she mentioned the stereotype, saying, I'm still there. 
Because we have so many stereotypes about the Black 
community, in general, but particularly some of those stereotypes 
that were used to enslave and, like, actually trafficked enslaved 
Africans here are some of the same stereotypes that we see 
today. And we see those stereotypes being played-out in the 
criminal-justice system, in the non-profits that operate and 
receive funding to solve problems in our community, that we did 
not create. 

And so I want to also just name that these-- I know a lot of 
nonprofits do this trauma-informed kind of approach. And that's 
been a buzz word for some time now. And I think that we need to 
switch that language. Because when you say that your services 
are trauma informed, you are putting the trauma before the 
person. 

And the trauma that we as Indigenous and Black communities did 
not create. They were created as a result of colonization, as a 
result of enslavement, as a result of attempted genocide. We did 
not create these problems. And I would like for all of us to look 
for other ways to describe the things that are happening in our 


communities, that don't blame us for what we've experienced-- 
because we have been oppressed. Now I'm done. 

ZOE FLOWERS: This is Zoe. And so in the chat, I actually put a 
link from the Action Network. It is a petition. There is a young girl 
speaking about what Annika was talking about. They're using her 
name as Grace, who was put in a detention center in May-- a 15-
year-old special-needs Black girl, who was put into a detention 
center for not doing her homework. 

And so those of you that are in Michigan, the judge, Mary Ellen 
Brennan, today or yesterday said she felt like the detention 
center was the best place for her to be-- that it would be best for 
her mental health. And so all of you Michigan folks, just going 
back to what Annika was saying about mainstream organizations, 
I've actually not heard a peep from the Michigan coalitions, or 
any Michigan program. 

So for those who are on the call from Michigan and surrounding 
areas, I would encourage you to read-up on this case and to get 
in on this advocacy. So that's my thing on that. 

I want to turn it back to Rachelle and Junetta. Junetta, I think 
you said you had more steps that were enacted in Canada that 
we could benefit from here in the US. So I will turn it back over to 
you, Junetta. And I'm just going to remind the panelists to please 
introduce yourself when you come on to speak. Thank you. 


JUNETTA JAMERSON: This is Junetta. The next thing that Rachelle 
and I broadly identified was the step of amplification. So once 
they had seized hold and reclaimed their own narrative-- so those 
stereotypes-- prostitutes and no good. No, no, no, no-- life 
givers, leaders, sacred. 

And I even as an outsider noticed this. Did you catch how 
Rachelle said that they blasted it? When they were doing their 
event and everything, they just blasted it. So the tools that they 
started to use in terms of media pressure to cover these things 
that were always just swept under the rug, and social media, had 
a very different language in it when the amplification now took 
place after the seizing hold of the narrative. That's where the 
hashtag MMIW emerged-- missing, murdered, Indigenous 
women-- MMIW. 

Again, from an Indigenous woman-- a former grand chief of 
Manitoba, Sheila North Wilson, we heard about the Esquao 
Awards. If you live here, unless you're under a rock, you know 
about the Esquao Awards-- you really have to be not paying 
attention-- and the positive messaging that went out with that. 

And Rachelle had also talked about reaching out. Really, I look at 
it as going over the Canadian government's head, when you 
reached out to the United Nations-- when you reached up to 
Amnesty International, to then exert more of a top-down 
pressure. That was a huge amplification-- huge. 


And Rachelle, if you could even just talk about-- we have these 
massive campaigns, like the Red Hand campaign. We see the Red 
Dress campaign, to amplify. What else can you tell us about this 
amplification stage? 

RACHELLE VENNE: Yeah, I can remember in 2009 when we were 
at the United Nations to hear what the government of Canada 
was saying about how they're dealing with the violence against 
Indigenous women. My mother and I walked up to the minister. 
And my mom was ready to hug her by the neck, I guess you 
would say. 

But she was so upset. She said, I'm not sure what world you live 
in, but what you said is not applicable to our communities that we 
live in and that we're raising our kids in. Because at that point the 
only suggestions, or what they were proud of is that they were 
opening two more shelters across Canada. And it was really you 
know disgusting to be there to hear that-- what they were telling 
the world. 

So yeah, for Amnesty to come on and take a stand on-- and they 
had over the course of several years-- United Nations rapporteurs 
coming to Canada to kind of look at what's happening and 
reporting back to the world. It really did show how terrible of a 
situation it was. 


And then we also had the plight of the children and that 
movement, to kind of say, if you're on a reserve, you should be 
getting the same good treatment for kids as if you're in an urban 
community. So that work that's being done nationally on 
emphasizing the disparities between the two has been 
phenomenal in reaching the world. 

And so I know that was a big event for us-- the idea of being able 
to show the cases that have gone. Especially in Alberta, we have 
some really significant cases that really identify how terrible of a 
situation, and unjust our justice system is for the women. Really, 
I think pulled at the heartstrings for all Canadians. And I know 
the Cindy Gladue, which was a case that went to the Supreme 
Court and is still in process, there were national walks and 
marches around that case. Because it had implications for all 
women, not just Indigenous women. So those are a couple that I 
can identify. 

JUNETTA JAMERSON: Yes, thank you. And that actually gets into 
the next step around investigation and inquiry. Now, there was 
intense lobbying to even get an inquiry into the missing and 
murdered Indigenous women. And again, just somebody here 
who was seeing it taken place, like, ugh. 

I don't know. I'm even searching for words to describe the effort 
that went in to getting that inquiry to happen. And it was it was 


women-- Indigenous women all across Canada, not just even in 
our own province. It was really a combined effort. 

There was a lot of resistance from multiple governments, but 
eventually they did come out with those recommendations. There 
was a final report. And it was ignored by the media. What can 
you tell us about that? 

RACHELLE VENNE: I know, it was. And this is why I'm not too 
fond of the media. It was an embargoed final report, and the 
media released it a day before. And we really fought that the 
families would see the final report first. And CBC Canada released 
it prior, because I think everybody got excited about the genocide 
word. But for that purpose, I really resent-- and kind of try to 
ensure that the messages that we are giving are the ones that 
are from us, not how the media spins it. 

And so the idea of those cases very much kind of got to the 
entrenched policies that need to change for us. And we have the 
Angela Cardinal case. That's not her real name, but it was a name 
given to her. And she was transported in the van. 

She was the victim, but actually she was thrown in jail, because 
they thought she wouldn't appear in court. She was brutally 
raped by a serial rapist, and incarcerated for a week, because 
they weren't sure if she was going to come to court or not. 


What happened in that case-- it was atrocity-- but the Alberta 
government at the time ordered an independent investigation 
from our neighboring province. A lawyer there did a independent 
inquiry. And just to kind of quote what they said-- there was 
enough blame to go around for everybody. Because it kind of 
showed the number of errors that were made within that case 
was unbelievable. 

And despite that-- despite having a very thorough report, we still 
can't move forward. Nobody's coming to our doorstep and saying, 
I'd like to implement the changes that were noted in the this 
independent inquiry. So we still continue to have to battle to try 
and get that recognized. Hey, did you do anything on this report? 

And so although I try and be optimistic about-- you know, we 
have some good things written, and we have kind of a plan to go 
forward. We have lots of strategies and could probably paper 
Edmonton with all of the work that's been done. But the idea of 
kind of getting the government to do anything is kind of the next 
step that we haven't been able to secure a lot of the time. 

But I just wanted to make one note, because I think it's really 
important. And it was very emotional for me and those in 
attendance on the final report for the National Inquiry. And the 
National Inquiry it's an imperative-- a legal imperative-- so that 
the prime minister now has a duty to implement the changes. 
And that's what they agreed to going in. 


And so at the final ceremony, you'll see the Indigenous 
community-- the commissioners of the report, they pass over in a 
ceremony the information, the messages of the families to the 
prime minister. And the prime minister in turn receives it and 
says, I'm going to do something on it. 

So that for us, I think, was very significant, in that in ceremony 
he agreed to do that. And with the National Inquiry, we now have 
all the provinces and territories signed on to take the 
recommendation and look at them and do something about them. 
So that's kind of the step we're at now. 

So like I say, I always try and stay positive and hope that that 
will be enough to kind of make the changes that we need. On the 
working group that I'm on, we have some fabulous MLAs-- 
members of our government that with four Indigenous women. 
And we're trying to make recommendations on how to implement 
the National Inquiry in Alberta. 

So I'm hopeful. I'm hopeful that now we have enough on paper, 
we have enough in the media, we have the public support now. 
And now it's time to get down to some significant actions. And so 
I hope that transcends for people who are working towards this 
issue in your community. 

ZOE FLOWERS: Thank you so much, Rachelle. This is Zoe. So we 
are going to take a pause for the interpreter. And then Annika, I 


will be coming back to you. Great, thank you. This is Zoe. And so 
Annika, I'm moving onto this third point that we wanted to 
highlight. 

When it comes to outside communities being put in charge of 
administering justice or healing, I would love for you to talk more 
about that-- what you have seen, and what are some additional 
remedies? 

ANNIKA LEONARD: OK. So I'm going to share some of my 
personal experience. And I would like to create some boundaries 
around sharing this information. I'm not ready to engage with it 
in the chat, or anything of that nature. It's still very raw. And I 
also feel that I am honoring my own experiences and journey, 
and the experiences of my grandmother, who was recently 
deceased. 

So I would like to share that, during the quarantine, my family 
had experienced violence at the hand of another family member. 
And this violence was so severe that we needed to ask for help 
within the police system. When the police arose on the scene, 
they did not take the person into custody. And the person 
actually said that they were going to kill myself and another 
member of our family, and pulled out the gun. And when the 
police arrived, they did nothing. 


I attempted to file several restraining orders, with the respondent 
being unserved. And when we were finally able to get the 
respondent served and arrive at court, the judge denied and 
completely dismissed my restraining order-- because he said that 
it didn't happen the way that it happened. 

So twice this family member came and caused the violence 
towards myself and my daughter. I know that I have her 
permission to say that. And the judge could not believe that the 
police did not do anything. This was a White male, older judge. 
And I feel that that's why I'm here, because the police didn't do 
anything. 

This man insisted that I should have had witnesses with me. And 
this was just last week, everyone. We're in an epidemic right 
now. And he insisted that I have witnesses come to the 
courtroom. And because no one came, my story was not 
believable. My experiences were not believable. 

And so I wanted to just highlight that as a prime example. I'm a 
person who's been in the movement to end violence-- in 
particular, gender-based violence-- for over 10 years. I'm close 
to, like, 17 years at this point. I am very familiar with the legal 
system. I know that cases are just not dismissed when you don't 
have a respondent. They usually grant you a restraining order. 


So we are in the process of getting the transcripts from the 
restraining order and filing an appeal. And even though that can 
help with the trauma that I experienced within the courtroom that 
day, it by no means heals the harm that's been done. 

And so one of the things that I would recommend is that there be 
an examination of how we view communities of color-- and 
particularly, how Black and anti-Blackness shows up within our 
community organization. Within people who are offering services 
to individuals who have been harmed, there is a lack of 
awareness. And also some of the things that I experienced was 
just a lack of humanity, just in general. 

We're in an epidemic. I have experienced extreme violence at the 
hands of a family member, including being harassed and tortured 
about my sexual identity-- because I'm not straight. All of these 
things were going on at once. And the advocate that I had, I had 
to literally asked her, like, are you my advocate? 

So her actions did not reflect that of an advocate. Her actions 
reflected the reason why I began my organization Priceless Incite. 
And so one of the things that I would recommend is that you all 
support community, grassroots-led people and organizations, and 
move further away from this system where we are ready to 
support 501(c)(3)'s. 


And the 501(c)(3) status, in my opinion, just uplifts and upholds 
a lot of the stereotypes. It puts the money in hands of people 
who are not looking and reflecting as the community that they 
serve. 

Everyone has biases. All of us have biases. And if you have been 
raised and trained in socialized to believe that, oh, when you see 
a black person that you have all of these negative stereotypes 
against this person, then you're less likely to want to assist them. 
You're less likely to call them and say, hey, how are you doing? 
Because you, in fact, have this underlying belief that this person 
does feel pain, or this is a everyday occurrence, so it doesn't 
matter if I call and check on them or not-- it's just a matter of 
everyday life for them. 

And so trauma is really normalized. And I mentioned it earlier, 
where folks who've experienced the trauma are being targeted 
repeatedly by systems who are re-harming us. And so I wanted 
to name that. And I also wanted to name-- because that's my 
example--- and I also have been working-- 

ZOE FLOWERS: Annika? This is Zoe. Please slow down. [LAUGHS] 
Let's take a breath, and thank you for sharing. And let's just slow 
down. 

ANNIKA LEONARD: OK. Thank you for the reminder. I apologize, 
everyone. 


ZOE FLOWERS: Don't apologize, but thank you 

ANNIKA LEONARD: Yeah. OK, I take it back. So there is a high-
profile case in Wisconsin right now. Of young lady-- her name is 
Chrystul Kizer. And she has been the subject of a lot of 
conversation. And I wanted to share some of the backstory. And 
anytime I get a chance, I'm going to uplift her and her story. 

So in February of 2018 the police received a phone call from a 
15-year-old girl, who said that she had been drugged and the 
person who drugged her was threatening to kill her. When the 
police arose on the scene, they found a young black woman 
walking down the street with a jacket and one undergarment on. 
So it's literally a scene out of Criminal Minds. 

When the police moved to arrest this person who caused the 
harm-- his name is Randy Volar. They found that he had 
hundreds of tapes of Black girls who he drugged, sexually 
assaulted, and trafficked. Chrystul Kizer was one of the young 
ladies. And they arrested this man. He spent $20,000 on a lawyer 
and was released the same day. 

This is the system that is supposed to institute justice for us, 
which is why it's important for us to uplift the experiences of 
Black women and girls and make sure that those of us who have 
power to create change to support women like Chrystul, because 
she is a woman at this point-- and both support and secure her 


freedom. We have to do what's necessary to make that happen. 
Thank you. 

ZOE FLOWERS: Thank you so much. This is Zoe. Thank you so 
much for all that you shared. Rachelle, I saw you nodding your 
head throughout so much of what a Annika was sharing. Please 
share with us some of what you were thinking, or even parallels 
that I know the Indigenous women in Canada experience as well. 

RACHELLE VENNE: Yeah, it's so unfortunate. I don't know if 
anybody's seen the National Inquiry, but there there's over 1,300 
stories in there. I mean, families have submitted their stories 
regarding that. But I was kind of shocked to know that every one 
of those stories that were shared, I had a similar type story that 
was shared with me in Alberta. And it really brought home the 
fact that it's happening all across Canada. 

And so the idea of how we communicate with each other, to share 
kind of what's going on in our neck of the woods, so that we as 
allies can support and kind of bring to light what's happening-- 
because sometimes, like you say, the media or others aren't 
picking-up this story-- is just something that we should always 
do. 

In regards to the cases that are in Alberta that we've kind of 
intervened on, the Cindy Gladue case, as I spoke of early on, was 
very significant-- in that every actor, we call them, in the 


courtroom had responsibility for what went on in that courtroom. 
And that includes the defense. That includes everybody within 
that courtroom. 

So if you can imagine, her vagina was brought into the 
courtroom. Mom didn't know. And so there was no laws against 
it. But for Indigenous people, there are lots of traditional 
connection to the body and how we lay people to rest. So she is 
not still laid to rest-- this woman who died in 2010. 

So the idea of what goes on and the responsibility that we have 
as community members to kind of shed light and create 
awareness on these injustices that happen is just so important to 
continue. And so I commend you, Annika, and all those that are 
sharing the woman's story. Because that's how we kind of come 
together and in our movements together. 

So the idea of we're all moms, and we do kind of have that 
connection the same. And so thank you, Annika for sharing that. 
And yeah, I could relate. 

ZOE FLOWERS: Thank you so much. This is Zoe. And so just to 
let the panelists know that we will be switching interpreters at 
3:15. Annika, there was a there was a question to you about 
explaining the trauma-informed piece and what you meant by 
that. I have started to use, personally, healing-informed instead 
of censoring the trauma. 


That's is Zoe. That's just my frame of reference. Because I do feel 
like we like to center trauma and not the healing. 

And I would also want to say that I would argue, and say 
frequently, that if you're only talking about the trauma that 
brought the person to the shelter, you are not trauma-informed. 
In order to be trauma-informed, in my opinion, you need to also 
be talking about historical oppression and all of those things that 
impact how survivors see the things that happen to them. And it 
also informs how the perpetrators inflict harm on them. So with 
that, I'm going to turn it over to you, Annika. 

ANNIKA LEONARD: Thank you, Zoe, for adding that. So in the 
chat, I mentioned this author. His name is Sean Ginwright, and 
his article is called "Healing Centered Engagement." And he 
speaks a lot about what you just mentioned, actually, Zoe, 
around centering trauma-- and that being the first thing that folks 
respond to. 

And then also how, when you're centering it, you are not talking 
about the conditions that made it more likely to happen. You are 
speaking to the behaviors that the person who's been impacted is 
displaying as a result of being traumatized. So it's really 
oppressive to start with trauma first, when we have so many 
other layers in our lives. And our lives are also impacted by 
institutions that have policies and procedures that do not benefit 
us taking a healing-centered approach. 


ZOE FLOWERS: Thank you Annika. This is Zoe. I was just looking 
for Sean Ginwright's Facebook page, which I was able to find. 
And so I'm going to put that in the chat. 

And so in these last 15 minutes, I want to encourage participants 
to-- there's about still 200 folks on the call. I would encourage 
you all to put any questions for our panelists in the chat I do 
want to see if Junetta wants to come in and talk more about 
remedies. 

I know that Rachelle talked about the media campaign-- all the 
very specific steps that Rachelle and the folks that she was 
working with did. Junetta, I would invite you to put that back in 
the chat-- those steps again. And please just let me know Junetta 
if there's other things that you want to add before we begin to 
wrap-up. 

JUNETTA JAMERSON: This is Junetta. Do you want to switch? 

ZOE FLOWERS: Oh, yes, yes. Let's pause for the interpreter. 
Thank you. This is Zoe. Thank you, OK, so are we all set with the 
interpreters? Great, thank you. Junetta, it's to you. 

JUNETTA JAMERSON: This is Junetta. In terms of numbers right 
now, the last that I saw, missing and murdered Black women in 
the United States was around 80,000-- 80,000. Is anyone else 
familiar with that number? 


A year ago it was 73,000. 2020 we're closing in on 80.000. Yes. 
That's a crisis. That's an absolute crisis that is screaming out for 
our own attention-- a carefully, impactfully constructed narrative 
around that, from Black women, of course. Amplification-- I can 
see the United Nations needing to get in on this. I can see 
Amnesty International needing to get on this. And we absolutely 
need legislative and policy change. 

Now, Rachelle let us know that in Canada here-- First Nations, 
Metis, Inuit-- Indigenous women have been at this work for 40 
years, and there still is work to do. Trying to remain optimistic, 
but she was very blunt with us about the opposition, even now, 
to get the recommendations from the Inquiry taken seriously and 
implemented. So they're going to have to keep the pressure on. I 
think that's a given for any of the steps. 

But it's time for a national effort. And as a Black American 
woman, I want to put that out there. I want to sound the alarm-- 
that clarion call to everybody who's gathered here today. It is 
time for that national effort. I see there Rosalind shared that the 
number of murdered is 538 as of today. That's oh-- missing and 
murdered. Is that of 2020, Rosalind? 2020, 538 so far? Yes. OK, 
wow. 

And just to, again, in the spirit of amplification, what Rosalind is 
doing is literally using Facebook to curate and document the 
deaths as they occur in a very real time. If you tune into her 


Facebook page, it is not a happy place, but it's a necessary place. 
Because we need to know what's going on. No more head in the 
sand. So yes, thank you, Rosalind, for that. 

And this is where it starts. Rosalind, I'm so thankful that you 
came today, Rosalind. This is where it starts. Do you remember 
how Rachelle was saying that the people knew, the community 
knew, the families knew. And that's where that statistical 
gathering all started. It starts with something like what Rosalind 
is doing. So we're literally seeing step-one stats in real time, in a 
representation courtesy of Rosalind. So thank you. 

And I'll just type in just this last bit of recap. So yeah, that's what 
I wanted to highlight. 

ZOE FLOWERS: Thank you so much. This is Zoe. So now I would 
like for all of the presenters to give one last word that you would 
want to leave folks with, and how people can get in touch with 
you. And Rosalind, I'm inviting you to put your Facebook page in 
the chat, if you wish. 

So anyone can jump in. One last thing-- who you are and how 
people can get a hold of you. 

RACHELLE VENNE: I can go. It's Rachelle. So the one last thing I 
wanted to leave you with something I didn't touch on. And that is 
infiltrating the systems. So mentoring and also supporting women 


to be in decision-making roles-- also to be involved in. So my 
daughter, for example-- my oldest daughter is an RCMP. And we 
need to get more women-- Indigenous women specifically into 
positions where they are the decision makers for moving forward. 

I believe my information has been shared. The Institute for the 
Advancement of Aboriginal Women does have a website. And so 
yeah, I'd be glad to connect with anybody after. 

ZOE FLOWERS: This is Zoe. Thank you, Rachelle. And if you could 
just put out what RCMP means-- if you can put that in the chat, it 
would be great. Annika or Junetta, last thing that you want to 
leave people with, and how they can get in touch with you. 

ANNIKA LEONARD: I just want to leave people with the hope-- 
hope, that is my word. That although I have shared some very 
painful experiences over the last couple of weeks, I have had 
some incredible people who have been there every step of the 
way-- who are of all ethnicities, who have been able to hold me 
the way that I hold others in the community-- and who have 
offered to help shape change for some of the mainstream 
organizations that I have alluded to-- or mentioned and not 
mentioned, I should say. 

So I have hope. And I know there is promise in our ability to 
change this, so that we don't have so many missing and 


murdered Indigenous women and missing Black women and 
youth. And so I have hope that we can figure this out. 

ZOE FLOWERS: Thank you so much, Annika, for that. Junetta, 
how about you? 

JUNETTA JAMERSON: Well, I'm very happy at what we were able 
to bring forward today. Something that occurs between 
communities that are experiencing oppression is a phenomenon 
called the race from the bottom-- where everybody who's 
oppressed is trying to get up out of that bottom rung. And if I 
have to step on your head to do it, that's what I'm going to do. 
It's that race from the bottom. 

And is just so wonderful to see Black women, Indigenous women, 
Metis representing Metis Nation coming together and just saying, 
you know what, race from the bottom, kiss my butt. We are not 
doing that today. 

We are sharing strategy. We are going to move this forward. So 
thank you everyone for the spirit in which you came. Thank you. 

ZOE FLOWERS: Thank you so much. And again, this particular 
conversation came out of experiences-- this is Zoe-- that Junetta 
and I have been sort of putting together. And so I want to just 
thank Annika. 


Thank you, Rachelle. Thank you to everyone who joined us on the 
chat. Also, for folks that want to support Indigenous women here 
in the United States, the National Indigenous Women's Resource 
Center is doing amazing work. 

And so I did put their information in the chat, as well. So there 
are lots of women right here in the United States who are doing 
this work, who've been doing this work. So I want to make sure 
that we shout them out as well. 

And I want to encourage you all to fill-out the evaluations for this 
conversation. We-- the resource center, myself-- will be back 
next month for our last conversation of this series. And it will be 
focusing on healing justice. There will be some embodied-healing 
movement. 

So I invite you all to register for that. Please follow-up with 
Junetta, Annika, Rachelle. Thank you so much to the interpreters. 
It's just so great to continue to work with you all. Thank you for 
the Vera team. 

And Nicole says, "thank you." Just lots of thank you, thank you's. 
"Thank you for your vulnerability." "Thank each and every one of 
you." 


Again, you can get the recording for this on chat. And I just want 
to again say thank you so much to the panelists for sharing what 
you shared today. And onward, you know? The work continues.